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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 62 post(s) |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
398
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Posted - 2014.04.28 17:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:The real way to handle these isn't to get rid rather reduce their impact. If one t2 bpo can produce 1000 of a particular module a week, but 100,000 are traded a week, it affects for 1% of the volume and you can largely forget about it. The issue is if a bpo can produce 10, 20 or even 50% of the volume of an item and there are literally hundreds of examples where this is the case. Capping TE on T2 BPO's would be a good start, but wouldn't even begin to get to the point where it is worth inventing a lot of things.
It would be far better to improve all the unpopular T2 products, so that people actually use them all in reasonable volume. That way there would be sufficient space for the T2 BPO owners and a reasonable number of inventors in every market.
This seems to be the approach that has been taken by the balance team, so if we give them some time the "problem" will get solved.
This will not stop people hating on eachother out of ignorance, prejudice and envy. But those issues are somewhat out of scope. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Abla Tive wrote:I am not fully familiar with POS's, but I seem to recall that you could copy faster on a POS than on a station.
This speed up was non trivial as I recall.
For a T2 BPO owner, would it now make sense to run a POS to make copies
(albeit at the cost of daily log ins to make sure that you have not been dec'd)
Would this impact the market?
Many people that produce from T2 BPOs do so at a POS already, so they are already getting that productivity bonus.
It looks to me like these changes will reduce T2 BPO output overall because more people will choose the simplicity and safety of NPC station production over the risk, cost and complexity of POS production. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Abla Tive wrote:I am not fully familiar with POS's, but I seem to recall that you could copy faster on a POS than on a station.
This speed up was non trivial as I recall.
For a T2 BPO owner, would it now make sense to run a POS to make copies
(albeit at the cost of daily log ins to make sure that you have not been dec'd)
Would this impact the market? Many people that produce from T2 BPOs do so at a POS already, so they are already getting that productivity bonus. It looks to me like these changes will reduce T2 BPO output overall because more people will choose the simplicity and safety of NPC station production over the risk, cost and complexity of POS production. They would, if BPC copy time wasn't receiving a huge buff for T2 BPOs.
They will have to copy at a NPC station to reduce the risk, which means that the copy speed limits their production. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:So far we have no indication that copy speed is getting bonuses anywhere, Pos or other wise
POS facilities will have to provide some advantage over NPC stations. I'm happy to wait for final information on what that is.
Seith Kali wrote:I ask you again, how many do you have?
Lots. I find when discussing matters like this it helps to have some first hand experience. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Seith Kali wrote:So far we have no indication that copy speed is getting bonuses anywhere, Pos or other wise POS facilities will have to provide some advantage over NPC stations. I'm happy to wait for final information on what that is. No scaling costs is probably enough, no?
Try again.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Seith Kali wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Seith Kali wrote:I ask you again, how many do you have? Lots. I find when discussing matters like this it helps to have some first hand experience. I hear a vested interest goes a long way too.
Yes, I'm not impartial. But a T2 BPO collection is not going to stop me from supporting good chages.
If I see a good argument for removing or totally nerfing T2 BPOs, I'll support it.
I don't think there is much danger of that though. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kadl wrote:Perhaps we can settle for constructive arguments?
I'd like that.
Historically the nature of the argument between the two camps has been along these lines:
Person A: Remove T2 BPOs because they are ruining the game!
Person B: In what way are they ruining the game?
Person A: By ruining it!
Person B: Would you like to support that claim in some way? Do you have any figures, graphs, maybe a pie chart?
Person A: Just remove them already!
Person B: I see.
Once you have witnessed this display a thousand times, you get to thinking that the problem is less with T2 BPOs and more with players that don't think things through.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
400
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aryth wrote:After some internal debate we want to point out something. It isn't 6.25%. It will be more like 60%. I doubt CCP wants T2 BPO production to more than double. So barring some other changes we haven't seen yet this is what will occur.
Well, that let the cat out of the bag. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
402
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Weaselior wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Aryth wrote:After some internal debate we want to point out something. It isn't 6.25%. It will be more like 60%. I doubt CCP wants T2 BPO production to more than double. So barring some other changes we haven't seen yet this is what will occur. Well, that let the cat out of the bag. it turns out there's no high-quality t2 module bpos for sale He isn't kidding. We spent hours looking at T2 bpos today.
Same here.
I was thinking it was too good to be true anyway. Outpost changes were bound to come along and scupper it all. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
403
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 07:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:After looking more into this it honestly looks like the devs behind these changes haven't really been able to consider most of the aspects involved here.
Indeed. It is quite shocking when such obvious mistakes get as far as a Dev Blog.
However, as disappointing as it may be, you do have to remember that Devs only work here and very few of them are going to be able to match the depth and breadth of knowledge that some of our players have. One assumes that's one reason why they ask for our feedback.
There is also a very small number of Devs compared to players, so putting it out for player feedback early (even before it looks ready) can be beneficial for the product even if it isn't beneficial for our opinion of the Devs. Unfortunately, one problem with player feedback is the very poor signal to noise ratio which makes it a real challenge for the Devs to digest. |
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